I’m guessing that most people in the translation industry are used to this question: “Which do you like better…(insert the name of your native country) or (insert the name of your “adopted” country/ies)??” I often get asked “Which do you like better, the U.S. or Europe?” It’s not an easy question to answer, but having just spent the summer in Europe, I have a few thoughts. Mostly, I think that feeling torn between two cultures is a real joy in life: two choices of location, language, identity, you name it. But it has its complications too! Feel free to add your own ideas in the comments!
In general, I am really happy in the US and in Europe, for different reasons. In the US, I love the “anyone can do it” spirit, the wide open spaces (at least where I live in Colorado!), the multiculturalism, the comparative lack of class-consciousness and the pervasive culture of hard work and optimism. In Europe, I love the slower pace of life, the sense of history, the value placed on arts and culture, and the fact that in less time than it takes to drive across Colorado, you can take the train from Geneva to Paris. Here are a few specifics that spring to mind.
When I’m in Europe, I miss:
- Let’s start with an easy one: ice cubes. In Switzerland at least, there seems to be a national collective agreement that iced drinks are bad for one’s digestion, even if, or maybe especially if, it’s incredibly hot outside.
- Small talk. I know this is classically American and kind of superficial, but I like a little idle chatter. It’s no coincidence that French doesn’t have a great expression for “How’s it going?” or the equivalent, and I kind of miss that. Particularly in Switzerland, it’s considered very invasive and inappropriate to strike up a conversation with a stranger, whereas in Colorado, it’s almost considered rude *not* to make some kind of conversation with someone next to you on a bus, in a line, etc.
- The non-smoking culture. The smoking situation in Europe has really improved since I first lived in France 20 years ago, but it’s still very different from the US. In general I think of Switzerland as being very health-conscious, but people smoke in lots of places that would be completely taboo in the US. For example when I was on a crowded platform in the Geneva train station (waiting for the TGV to Paris!), the person next to me lit up a cigarette and no one seemed to notice, much less say anything. We also saw people smoking in the non-smoking sections of cafes in Austria without being chastised by the staff. Compared to the almost nonexistent population of smokers here in Boulder, the smoking rate in Europe is very shocking.
- American opening hours. I know, this is another lazy American thing, but it’s really hard to get into the mindset of planning the day around when the grocery store is open. In Switzerland, basically everything besides restaurants closes at 5 (including “essential” businesses like pharmacies and supermarkets) and in some of the parts of Italy we visited, the mid-day break lasted from noon to 4 PM with stores being open from about 8-12 and 4-7. Even in our city of 100,000 people in the US, there are at least three supermarkets that are open 24 hours a day. Not that I generally go grocery shopping at 3 in the morning, but having things open past 5 is very nice.
But then again, when I’m back in the US, I miss:
- Being able to have an actual conversation with someone who’s not texting or e-mailing or answering their phone while we’re talking. While I was in Europe this summer I went to a financial translation conference in Paris. Financial translation; people who presumably care a lot and think a lot about money. And the conference was during the week, when the attendees would presumably have been getting calls and texts and e-mails from clients. But during the breaks, guess what most people did: go out in the mingling room and talk to each other. Seriously. Americans should give this a try sometime and see how it works.
- That touch of European class. Coffee in a china cup, with a napkin and a little chocolate so that you don’t have coffee breath. Real food made with real ingredients, even if you’re in a hurry. Train attendants in pressed uniforms. Pastries wrapped up in fancy paper and sealed with a fancy sticker, even if you’re going to eat them right away. The absence of sweat pants and sneakers outside the gym. The absence of dollar stores.
- Public transportation that goes everywhere. I know, the US is too vast for a European solution to this one. But it’s just such a huge difference. The town where we lived in Switzerland (clinging to the side of a mountain above Lake Geneva) would be considered un-servable by public transportation in the US. Here in Colorado, the equivalent mountain towns are lucky if a public minivan makes a run up there once a day. Of all the ski resorts in Colorado, only one is served by public transportation. But our Swiss town has had a cog railway for a hundred years, and it runs once an hour from 6 AM until 11 PM. Seriously. And we could get from that town to another small town halfway across Switzerland in two or three hours. Of all the things that bug me about the US when I come back from Europe, it’s the car culture that bugs me the most!
I’ve been formulating this post for a while and I know it’s a bit rambling, but I trust you translators and interpreters to get it. And please feel free to add your own “torn between two cultures” thoughts too!!
I live just outside Zurich and also can’t get used to the pervasive smoking – after coming here from the UK! The situation is not the same across the whole of Europe, in the UK and Ireland non-smoking is the norm. Switzerland seems to have a great attachment to its cigarettes, as does my “other” place, Japan. (It’s enough to make me wonder if there’s a connection between smoking and excellent public transport.)
I hear you on all counts! The car culture is definitely the most annoying contrast post-Europe. Thank goodness I live in a metro area with marginally better public transportation options.
One minor correction: I lived and worked in Switzerland for a year-ish, and I can tell you, even in my ritzy college/retirement town, there was a dollar store. Called a 2-Franc store, but same cheap junk. They also have designated “trash nights” when everyone puts their unwanted stuff on the curb and locals/students reap the rewards.
Hi, I found your blog via http://www.sagalang.com/ which I got to via the wonderful Fire Ant and Worker Bee question and answer blog on Translation Journal. Ah the meandering routes of the Internet. Just attended the BDÜ conference in Berlin, so feel inspired by the change of scene and the chance to connect with my peers. But the Internet allows to do this too. Will definitely keep reading your blog, great to stand back from the “daily grind” and think abut what we tranlsators do and why (if we know why).
Kind regards. Eileen Laurie
Corinne, I agree with all your points and as I was reading your post I realized how “Americanized” I have become after 15 years! I was nodding in agreement to the rude behavior of the smoker on the platform and I would not have done so 15 years ago (although I never was a smoker but grew up surrounded by many). I would add to your points one about the education system (at least in France). When growing up and I would hope it has changed since (maybe Eve can give us her take on it), the education system was always focused on the negative and what students did wrong rather than their accomplishments. Very early on, I complied with this system but deeply inside knew there was a better alternative. I don’t miss that at all now that I have kids and that we live in the US. I love that everything my kids accomplish is acknowledged and emphasized (Ok, sometimes it may be a little too much!) by their teachers and their peers. I can already see the difference in the confidence the build compared to how I was at the same age. In my eyes, it is a major cultural difference between France and the US. That was my 2 cents comment!
I have lived in the US for 20+ years and every when my kids were growing up we (or at least they) would spend the summers with family and in camps in Mexico. Here are some of our thoughts
What we miss from Mexico (and LA in general)
FOOD! great, wonderful, delicious, food. From complicated sauces to exotic fruits
After dinner conversations and conversations in general
Public transportation everywhere
Authentic interest and smiles from people around you
Great coffee
Hardworking people with a more relaxed attitude
Historical sites
Downtowns with a plaza in every town
People know more about politics and in general they are aware that there is a world outside their place
Sense of humor
What we miss from the US
Efficiency
A functional democracy
Lack of class consciousnesses
non smoking culture
Corinne, I understand “how’s it going” as a strict equivalent to “comment ça va ?”, like a conversation opener that is capable of conveying both a (seemingly) friendly attitude and a (very) mild interest in the actual answer at the same time!
As far as I’m concerned, the only thing from my parents’ native Benin I miss when I’m here in France is the people. Sometimes, but quite rarely, I miss the food. When I’m in Benin, I miss the total lack of corruption (in each and every single daily activity one may have outside their homes – it’s unfathomable if you haven’t experienced it and the entire Western Africa is plagued with this), the fact that you don’t need to have money to have rights, and the fact that fatalism is rare. I also miss rules, civilized behavior and traffic lights on the roads.
Oh man, do I relate to this! Sometimes, seeing people just happy with how things are around them makes me think we’re cursed:) From my own experience, here are a few things I miss from one country or another depending on where I am on the planet!
The ability to take the car and drive to the other coast if I want to (US… and France, if you’ve stashed enough bills for gas and turnpikes!)
The “can do” attitude (US and Colombia)- and entrepreneurship (there’s more to life than being a civil servant!)
Client service as in “it’s probably not possible but let’s see what I can do”(Colombia and US)
“Trial and error” type education that helps build confidence (US and Colombia) I definitely second Marianne on this one
Openness to other cultures (Colombia), especially at school – for example, I only got to know more about Latin America when I decided to move here
The ability to get a visa without waiting forever and shelling out thousands in attorney fees (Colombia and France, although the French immigration system has its little quirks as well, to say the least)
Public transportation (France)
Food (Colombia and France)
Good infrastructures (France and US)
Planning ahead (France and US)
People doing what they say they’ll do and calling if they’re late for an appointment or won’t make it (France and US)
Closeness with extended family (Colombia)
Lack of class-consciousness (US and, when compared to Colombia, France)
Quality and breadth of TV/radio programs/channels, and newspapers, and choice of movies in theaters (France and US)
Friendly public servants, especially at the border/immigration (Colombia)
Civilized drivers (France and US, except Paris and Miami!)
I am sure there are many more…
It is great to know that you live in Colorado, neighbor 🙂 I have been living in Denver/Highlands Ranch for 10 year. I am originally from Egypt and here is my take on this issue:
What I am miss from Cairo, Egypt:
1) Anytime, you can go out and find stores and restaurants open. People are everywhere and do not be surprised if you get into a traffic jam at 2:00 am 🙂 I don’t miss this traffic jam for sure, but I hate being unable to go out and have some fun after 9:00 pm here in Denver. I think hot weather plays a big role in this regard. Since it is too hot during daytime, people in Cairo tend to go out after 8:00 pm and have some fun.
2) For sure, I miss family, friends, family gathering, visiting my cousins, brothers, etc
3) Believe it or not, I miss the possibility of going to see a doctor. You can ask friends, family members, and they can refer to you the test doctor in town. You can also see him/her the same day or within a day or 2. Here in the US, it is really awful. First, it is not easy to find out about good doctors. Theoretically, you can, but it is not easy. The worst thing is that it may take you up to 4 weeks to see a specialist. I need to see an orthopedist now and my appointment is scheduled for October 29th. I called them on September 28th, arghhhhh 🙂
4) I miss the great Egyptian food; I believe that Middle Eastern cuisine is the best 🙂 I am a bit biased here for sure 🙂 Luckily, there are some good Middle Eastern restaurants; one of the best is Marakech on Colorado Blvd. You should go there Corinne, you will like the food.
5) For some reason, most of Lourdes’s points are applicable to Egypt. I really believe that Middle Eastern people have many things in common with Latin Americans 🙂
I am sure there are more stuff but this is what I can recall now
What we miss from USA:
1) wide roads with up to 4 lanes 🙂 I wish we have this in Egypt, but it is almost impossible now in a terribly overcrowded city.
2) For sure, non-smoking cultures. In Egypt, if you take a taxi , even with your infant, the driver won’t mind smoking a cigarette after another. If you politely asked him to put it out, he won’t be happy and he would simply throw it out of window, maybe to show you that he is not happy 🙂 Some of them are nice though.
3) lack of democracy again in agreement with Lourdes. We are very hopeful though after the 25-Jan revolution. Things will change for the better, I hope, still a long way to go.
4) Parks: I am sure you know what I am talking about Corinne. If you live in Colorado, you enjoy the great parks everywhere and especially Rocky Mountain 🙂
5) Walking trails: this is rare in Cairo and I hope we will have more of them in the future.
I think this is enough for now. I enjoyed your post, Corinne!
When I”m in Europe, I can forget to tell waiters and waitresses that I don’t want ice in my water. 🙂 I’m with you on all the others.
One of the things I miss about Russia is the walking culture, how you go for a walk with you friends and talk about everything in the world along the way instead of sitting in a bar for hours on end.
I concur with the people who pointed out smoking as a big difference. Smoking in public is much more prevalent in Russia than in the US. As a non-smoker, this is not something I particularly cherish.
Hey everyone,
I was born in Boulder, Colorado, where Corinne apparently lives some of the time, and I now live most of the year in Belgium, where I teach translation (FR-EN) at the Univeristy of Mons. I have been here nearly 20 years, teaching translation for 15+, but return to Colorado twice a year (Christmas and summer).
You’re right; everyone asks the dreaded “which do you like better” question.
In the same way that one contributer mentioned that you can’t really extend comments about Switzerland to all Europe, it can be risky to assume that what is true in Colorado is true everywhere in the US. Still, everything Corinne says I can definitely relate to with respect to Belgium.
The subject of food is, I think, in some ways too easy and yet much more complex than many think. The food people eat in places other than where we grew up will always seem exotic and might benefit in our esteem from a sort of aura, just as we might think the food we grew up eating is the best in the world. I was over 30 when I moved to Belgium and I can honestly say that the food I find here is not fresher, more natural or better tasting than the food I grew up eating. Perhaps this is because my mom was a stay-at-home mom who could cook and did; and perhaps that makes all the difference, but the same quality is available in the US as anywhere else in the world. You can choose. If you eat poorly there, it is because you choose to. You are not forced to.
I see that one other contributer also brings up the education systems, talking about the focus on failure inherent in the French system, reinforcing a feeling of inferiority, and, frankly, fear of authority. These characteristics are also prevalent in French-speaking Belgium, and I will add that in the lower education system children are not encouraged at all to think for themselves. They are essentially told that they know nothing and the teacher by rights knows everything and that they should shut up, “open wide and swallow”. Children who question their teachers are not welcome and can be severely punished… (for daring to think!). For me, at the university level, this means that in translation courses where I ask students to comment on a translation I often find myself facing a silent group of 20 or more. Not one has anything to say, good or bad. It is not always like that, but it isn’t unusual either. It can be very frustrating.
I really miss people separating their personal problems and frustrations from their professional activity and at least observing the most basic courtesies.
Corinne, you call it small talk, but the barrier is very moveable. I know that the clerk at Walmart who says “How are you today?” doesn’t really want to know, but at the same time if I decide that hers is the ear I need to vent my frustrations about a bad relationship, a bad day at the office, my child’s latest tantrum, etc. she will listen and will respond appropriately with something inane, but oddly comforting like, “I’m very sorry to hear you’re having such a rough time.”
This is perceived as “superficial” (the word of choice) by many Europeans, yet I prefer that “superficiality” by a mile over walking a shop where I get a dirty look, a roll of the eyes, a huge sigh of frustration… from the salesperson whom I am forcing to actually do something related to the job for which he/she is paid. Not unusual in Belgium, I’m afraid.
As the folks get older, the distance seems greater, but there is also much to be gained from having more than one “home”.
Regards to all,
‘Particularly in Switzerland, it’s considered very invasive and inappropriate to strike up a conversation with a stranger’ – I’m quite surprised by this. I work in Germany as a translator and last week took a trip to Switzerland and was stopped twice in Berne by two different older people who both wanted to ask something.
I personally don’t enjoy the ‘superficiality’ described in the comment above. In Britain, the supermarket checkout operators are literally obliged by contract to ask how you are, if you’d like help packing etc., whereas in Germany your goods are thrown through the till and you’re ushered on as quickly as possible. I much prefer this, instead of a customer and cashier both pretending they’re not there for the goods and salary respectively!
I also much prefer the cycling culture in Germany. I don’t really think the UK has that same cycling culture, or at least Scotland doesn’t – probably because of the weather! It means that every time I go to stay/work in Germany, I end up losing a little weight!
On the other hand, I much prefer the (albeit) Americanised consumer society in the UK. Real supermarkets like Tesco and ASDA are easily preferable to Lidl, Penny and even Edeka in Germany. I realise that Germany does have the Kaufland chain, but it’s not as prevalent as the other chain stores.
What do I miss about the US? Some family and friends. Late shop hours. Lower population densities.
What would I miss about Germany? Its proximity to more civilized countries.Possibly something else, but I’ll have to think about that. Turkish pastries I suppose.
One more point that I am surprised no one mentioned and that is dancing. At any party in LA you will see that people are not ashamed of dancing. When I was a teenager a party was a few sodas some ham sandwiches and dancing music. When my grandmother was 90 she would still enjoy the little dancing she could do. Definitively dancing and singing are missed.
Great discussion! In Europe, I miss customer service, easy return policies, friendly smiles from strangers and a general lightness of being. And I miss clothes that are not black and generally dark, for some reason. In the US, I miss long, leisurely lunches and dinners without being presented with the bill. And outdoor cafés with china cups, too! And really healthy food, and of course my family. And a broader spectrum of political parties. And then there’s what I miss and don’t miss about the country in which I grew up, Mexico (specifically, Mexico City). I miss the joy of living, the music, friends and food. And the beaches. I don’t miss many other things, such as not being able to get the phone fixed when I was a phone-addicted teenager, but I digress…
Though you’re right about quite a lot of these observations, it still amuses me that people born in the USA see Europe as one entity. If you’re born in the UK, you’re trained to feel positively offended by any insinuation that you have things in common with any of the rest of the continent! To me, the main difference when I leave the UK is that people look like they’re content to take their time more. Even in Paris I don’t get the same sense of desperate time-saving as I do in London.
Hi Corinne, I share a lot of your thoughts (and frustrations) from this post. Thanks for sharing your views.
I’m Italian, living between Italy and England.
The only thing that surprised me a little from your post is your observation about small talk. I think perhaps in Switzerland and other parts of Europe where people tend to be more reserved and closed off to strangers, they may not like to be addressed casually in the street etc. But I’ve rarely experienced this in Italy, Spain, the Netherlands and even Scandinavian countries, where strangers are surprisingly open and friendly, even in large towns like Stockholm, Malmo, Copenhagen, etc.
Another story is getting a friendly smile and welcome (even if ‘fake’) when walking in a store or supermarket. That’s a bit of a hit and miss in Italy, for example, where in certain store chains staff is trained to be friendly to customers, but in others you can get a kind of treatment that in the US would be perceived as very rude.
Regards.
Paola
One thing I love about my “adopted culture” (Russia) is the lack of what I call America’s anti-intellectualism. Over here, it’s not cool to be smart. Bright students are encouraged to keep quiet and blend in, politicians who sound too educated are considered unpopular and snobbish, and in all walks of life we are discouraged from being a “know-it-all.” In Russia, intelligence, intellect, education,and culture are not shunned or ridiculed, at least in my (albeit limited) experience. Yay geeks!
HI guys, I have to ask a question… Do you ever really feel torn between two countries? I spend half the year in Europe and the other half Down Under. I am finding it increasingly difficult to move between the two. I find it hard picking up again with friends and and that family puts a lot of pressure on me to stay in one place. Does anyone have a similar experience? I’m single, with no kids. I should be lucky with such wonderful opportunities, but sometimes it gets me down a bit! I just love two countries and don’t want to live in either of them full time! What to do….
Jackie, I share some of your frustration. I live part of the year in Italy and part in the UK. Each country has its pros and cons, and I’m not prepared to ‘give up’ the opportunity to enjoy the best of both worlds, so to speak. But it’s also difficult to keep two houses ‘open’, pay taxes and bills in two countries, etc. I don’t find it too difficult, though, to pick up with family and friends after some absence, not too much, at least. But my family obviously places a lot of pressure on me to ‘choose’ one country, especially since they don’t travel a lot themselves…
I definitely feel you on this. For me, it’s America and Japan. I lived in Japan for a year and have visited 3 times, and a lot of my college friends are living there on/off. I try to keep up with the language and even worked for a Japanese company here. Also I am engaged to an American. But at night I often dream that I am in Japan. The feeling is getting better but for a while I felt an inner turmoil everyday over which country I should be in. I got a job offer to work in Japan and turned it down.
I think what I took away is that I can live in America but still celebrate Japan and enjoy the best of Japanese culture and language. Because living in Japan isnt perfect either. The things you said about America are spot on, by the way. Not everywhere has the luxury we do of wide open spaces!